Auction House Talk Interview…TV Auctions

The other day I was lucky enough to meet with an important member of America’s Auction Network, John Noble. You may be familiar with John who is one, if not the, most popular hosts on this network. AAN (America’s Auction Network) is the only television auction house broadcasting live auctions 24 hours a day 7 days a week on both satellite and cable television all across the United States and North America.

You can find AAN on Direct TV channel 324, Dish Network channel 219 and Bright House channel 165. This is really great entertainment and AuctionHouseTalk is happy to recommend this network to all you auction lovers and, if you don’t love auctions now, this network could easily change your mind. You may also visit their website located at aantv.com. They are headquartered in the Tampa Bay area.

John Noble has been doing a lot of travelling lately for the new expanded real estate segments now available on AAN’s very diverse schedule. Since John and I have known each other for years, he agreed to meet with me over dinner to talk about his career as an auctioneer and now a television star of sorts.

The Interview

AHT: Thanks for doing this interview. I know you have been very busy travelling all over the country and don't have a lot of extra time on your hands. You're a good pal.

JN: It's great to be able to get together with you. We don't get too see each other as often as we used to. I really miss your auction house. It was great fun, especially when you would jump out of a cedar chest while it was being auctioned and scare everybody.

AHT: I'm a real ham. I already know the answers to some of these questions because we've known each other for so long, but some of our readers may not be as familiar with you as others so a few of the questions are for their benefit. 

JN: Ask away.

AHT: How long have you been an auctioneer?

JN: I have been a licensed auctioneer in the state of Florida for 12 years but I have pretty much been in the auction business for 20 years.

AHT: Prior to being an auctioneer, you were an electrician. That's quite a different career path. How did this change in careers transpire?

JN: You're right. I was an electrical contractor in business with my father for around seventeen years. Slowly I began to get interested in antiques, along with my wife, and auctions seemed to be quite an interesting way to acquire really nice things for our home at really good prices such as paintings, furniture and Oriental rugs. It was just a natural progression from there. The auction arena seemed exciting and it was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed myself every time I went to an auction and I started to think that it might be something I would like to do.

AHT: Did you go to school, work as an apprentice or do both?

JN: I went to work for an auction house and then got into the apprentice program. I wouldn't necessarily recommend school over apprenticeship or vice versa. The apprenticeship option worked out well for me. It allowed me to continue working at the same time I was learning. I got hands on knowledge of how an auction business really works and got to perform in front of an audience of real buyers. Everyone is different - apprenticing was the right choice for me. 

AHT: You used to work for a mutual friend of ours who was 
also my auctioneer for a number of years. Even though he's never cared for ringmen, you were a ringman for him. Was that a difficult working relationship?

JN: No. We got along very well. Back at that time when he was first in business, he actually did want a ringman. As you know, people hide all over the place and it's hard to catch everyone's bid. He really did want an extra pair of eyes on the floor.

AHT: Please don't let this go to your head, but you are one of the best 
auctioneers around. Did you practice for hours in front of a mirror?

JN: Actually no. I never practiced in front of the mirror. I practiced in the shower and in the car. I picked up some of my skills from attending a lot of auctions and listening to other auctioneers. I would find something I liked from each auctioneer's performance and would then try to further develop it until it became part of my own style of auctioning. I also looked for traits in those same auctioneers that I didn't care for. Eventually I developed my own chant and created certain expressions and mannerisms that are unique to me. 

AHT: Do you still practice?

JN: No. As you can attest to, I have done non-stop auctioning for a number of years now. Sometimes I've called more than one sale in the same day as well as calling a sale every day for a number of days in a row. Auctioning is just a part of me now so I don't need to practice anymore.

AHT: Did you have stage fright at first?

JN: Believe it or not, I did. Even though I had been out in front of an auction crowd as the ringman for a couple of years, it was quite different to actually be on the block with the microphone. Fortunately, my nervousness was short lived. It only lasted for a few minutes and then I settled in and felt pretty comfortable up there. I have to credit all the people who were there because they helped me to relax. I knew most of the people in the room. It might have been different if my first time on the block was at a different auction house with a building full of strangers.

AHT: You worked for a large auction company where you were not the only auctioneer. You had to spend a lot of time picking up consignments and setting up auctions. Did you like that part of the business?

JN: I enjoyed picking up consignments and being involved with all different types of goods, especially the antiques. It was great experience to deal with not just the antiques but also restaurant equipment, boats, cars and so forth. The more I was exposed to the more I learned. Of course, being on the block was what I relished the most.

AHT: You have also had to do a lot of on-site sales. How do they compare with in-house sales?

JN: In-house auctions provide a more controlled atmosphere but on-site auctions can be exciting. If you're doing an on-site auction of the contents of a house and family members are there it can be difficult. Sometimes emotions run high and they get upset watching things that belong to them go up for sale to the highest bidder. On-site sales at homes are definitely problematic and I tried to discourage them. There is never enough parking for the customers and usually some of the neighbors get upset because they end up with cars on their lawns and the like. 

You also have to worry about having enough chairs and enough room for the chairs, you have to worry about security as well because you don't have the smaller items put away in showcases, etc. 

Business liquidations are a different matter. On-site sales at businesses are great. It saves you the trouble of having to move a lot of large equipment and usually a business will have the needed number of parking spaces. You go in, do the sale and then you're out. You don't have to waste a lot of time on moving and set-up.

AHT: Do on-site auctions do as well?

JN: Yes. Sometimes they can do better if it is a well-known business being liquidated. The drawback is that an on-site auction requires more advertising than if you had it in-house. People will see the ad, see your company name and show up at your building. Most auction goers are comfortable with what they know. They are used to your auction house, used to how things work and at an on-site sale there are a lot of things that will be different.

AHT: Just like I did, you work 14 to 16 hour days on a regular basis. Most of the other auctioneers and auction house owners we know do the same thing. Why do you think that is?

JN: It seems to just be the nature of our business. Auction houses have never been just nine to five. Most auction houses deal with tough deadlines and timetables. We have always had to be flexible because there are many consignors who are unable to meet or consult with an auction house until after they get out of work or until they put the kids to bed, all sorts of things. 

As you know, once you do meet with them, it's never a fast in and out. They may have a number of specific items they want to discuss or want appraised and then they have to decide what items they don't want to send to the auction. 

In turn, we may have to negotiate with them about how they can't hold out too many important items or it isn't worth while for the house to take it, etc. We could get 5 or 6 calls like that a week. That eats up a lot of time in addition to the time constraints we are already under getting the next auction set. That usually means overtime and lots of it. 

AHT: Do you think those of us in the auction business tend to make it a way of life rather than a job we walk away from at the end of the day, or do you think all businesses are like this?

JN: There are probably a lot of businesses that are like that. You are right though, to most of us in this industry it is definitely a way of life. It's almost a life style. What we do is important for a lot of the people who come to us. For some of them, what they have consigned to us can make the difference in whether they can pay their bills, or buy something essential that they absolutely need. I believe that everyone we know in this business takes that responsibility very seriously. 

AHT: What do you like to auction the most? I can answer this one for you but go ahead. You do it.

JN: Antiques.

AHT: How much different is it working for a TV auction than a traditional auction house? 

JN: It was a very dramatic change for me because I had been in the industry for so long and was used to working in front of a live audience. Don't say it. I know the TV audience is alive but they are not sitting right in front of me. I also had to get accustomed to the seven to ten second delay between TV and real time. I have to remember when I am auctioning an item that I have to wait for everyone to catch up to me. 

I have to wait for a bidder to pick-up his or her phone, dial our number, have the phone answered, let the bidder speak to the operator, place the bid - all before the bid is passed onto me. We have telephone operators taking the bids on the phone as well as real ringmen feeding me bids from the operators. It's all second nature to me now but it was a little hard at first.

AHT: On TV, it sounds like the telephone operators are the 21st century's version of ringmen. But let me make sure I understand this. The operators have their own ringmen?

JN: Yes. The operators are agents of the auctioneer because they are taking the bids. That makes them the same as ringmen but we also have ringmen on the floor. We do everything we can to make sure all bids on the phones get placed. We don't want to upset any of our customers by missing their bids. 

These ringmen also feed me other important information. They let me know if a customer is looking for a particular item. If we can, we try to accommodate that customer by getting that item out of the back and getting it in the show.

AHT: Now would be a good time to plug your company.

JN: The company is America's Auction Network. We are live 24 hours a day, seven days a week. You can find us on Dish Network, Direct TV, 27 cable markets across the country and locally in Florida it is channel 165. We are working on entering the international market but we aren't quite ready yet. 

AHT: How long have you been with AAN?

JN: Just about five years now.

AHT: Even though you aren't as easy to recognize as Tom Cruise, how does it feel to be famous enough that people say, "Hey, I know you."?

JN: It's funny you mention that. It just happened to me the other day when I was in Texas and that's exactly what the lady said, "Hey, I know you. You're the guy from TV." I try to ascertain if they like me or not before I admit to it. I was born and brought up right here in St. Petersburg, Florida so I am used to people around here knowing me. It's a little mind boggling to have complete strangers recognize me in other parts of the country. 

AHT: Let's back track for a minute. Did you like working with ringmen when you were auctioning in a traditional auction arena?

JN: Actually I did. I found them very helpful. Auctioneers have a tendency to not see the people in the first couple of rows. They are gazing at the whole crowd and usually look toward the back and work their way forward. Ringmen are very helpful with catching bids that are really close by and catching bids from those who like to be secretive.

AHT: Are all sales final on TV like they are at a traditional auction house?

JN: No. Even though it's an auction, there is a fifteen-day return policy. If someone returns an item because they decide they don't like it, they are going to pay a restocking fee to return it. However if I said, for example, a ring was a size 7 on the air and when they get it the ring is a size 8, we are going to take it back and not charge them a fee for that because it was our fault. This particular policy is much different from a traditional auction house where the rule is, "you buy it, you own it". 

AHT: Have you personally ever been grateful for the 7 to 10 second delay?

JN: Is my face red? Yes. This is when having the delay is a good thing. I have said a few things that I should not have said and some of them got past the delay too. 

AHT: How many items can an auctioneer sell in an hour on TV versus at a traditional auction?

JN: As you know, some auctioneers are faster than other auctioneers.

AHT: I'll say.

JN: At a traditional auction, about 90 to 100 items an hour is about average. On TV, we're able to maybe do 60 an hour. This is something that we try to watch. We are always trying to improve this number because time is money, especially on TV. 

AHT: Do all the auctioneers on television have goals that they have to meet? 

JN: Absolutely. Almost everyone involved in TV selling, whether it's auctions or straight sales have some type of hourly quota they try to meet. One of the most important factors on TV is the cost of airtime. It is very expensive. At a traditional auction house you have overhead costs that include the rent on the building. Well, when you are on TV, you have the overhead costs that not only include the rent on the building but the airtime as well. It's like double rent. 

AHT: Obviously certain hours on the air draw bigger audiences than others and some types of merchandise must be more popular than other types. Are these factors considered in the goals that are set for each auctioneer or does an auctioneer just have to work harder if they are in a bad time slot?

JN: No matter what time of day or night it is, we try to bring every audience a wide range of items they can buy and we try to mix less expensive items with some of the more costly items. It is a little more difficult in the morning because people are busy getting ready for work or getting the kids off to school. We do take all that into consideration when it comes to looking at quotas.

AHT: You also do specialty shows, don't you?

JN: Yes. We will do a specialty show on artwork, one on Oriental rugs, one on coins and now we do real estate.

AHT: Do other staff members decide what merchandise is going to be auctioned on which show or does each auctioneer decide what will be in his or her show?

JN: Most TV auctioneers produce their own shows. We do have major producers who do enhance each auction with things that will give a better visual appearance when the camera scans the merchandise that's on deck. But most auctioneers do decide which items they want in their sale. We will also listen to the audience and if someone wants a ruby ring, for example, and we don't have one coming up - we will go get a ruby ring. 

AHT: You have worked full-time for an auction company but you have also freelanced at the same time. By freelancing I mean showing up at an auction house just before the auction, calling the sale and then leaving. Do you enjoy freelancing?

JN: Absolutely. I'm not sure I would want to do that all the time but it is nice to just walk in, call a sale and leave. It is especially nice if what you like the most is actually being on the podium. 

AHT: I will tell our readers that you are a really good guy. Over the years, I don't know how many times I had to call you at the last minute, and I mean the last minute, because our auctioneer was either sick or had gotten hurt. Your response was always the same. "I'll be there as fast as I can." Even though you had already worked all day, you would come to our sale, jump up on the podium and auction non-stop for four straight hours. I'm also sure that on some of those occasions, you had other plans. 

JN: It was my pleasure. Besides, had I ever said no - you had my address.

AHT: Do you find being an auctioneer rewarding?

JN: Very. I like working with the crowd. Now, even though my audience is on the telephone, I am familiar with some of the regulars who call all the time. It was always particularly rewarding when you were able to do a good job for someone who was selling his or her estate. When you can make someone happy, it's a really good feeling. I remember when I did a bridal shop liquidation. 

AHT: I remember it, too.

JN: Don't start.

AHT: Go ahead.

JN: As I was saying, I remember when I did a bridal shop liquidation. A young girl was there and she had picked out a wedding gown that she really wanted. It was an $8,000 gown and she got it for $400. When I pointed to her and said, "Sold", she started to cry. In a small way, I felt like I played a part in making her wedding dreams come true. Those are the kinds of things I find rewarding. 

AHT: I know what you mean. We had a young man buy a diamond ring one night at our auction without his girlfriend seeing him. They had met at an auction about a year earlier. He asked me if there was any chance he could propose to her during the sale. He didn't understand that the only time you stop an auction is if the auctioneer dies in the middle of selling an item. But it was so sweet. 

I went up on the podium, stopped the auction, and gave him the microphone. It took him awhile. She was a little embarrassed but thank goodness she said yes. The audience gave them a big round of applause. Our auctioneer, always the romantic, could not believe I would purposely wreck the entire momentum of the auction just for that. 

JN: Those are the things that make this business so much fun.

AHT: Overall, do you think it is a good paying job?

JN: Yes. If you develop a good style of auctioning and work hard, it can pay well.

AHT: What qualities should someone have to begin with if they want to be a good auctioneer?

JN: That's a really good question.

AHT: Of course it is. I asked it.

JN: I have found that some people have what it takes and some don't. I believe that anyone can be taught to be an auctioneer but you have to be personable, you have to like people and you have to be able to read people. Some of that would come with practice but auctioning is much more than just rattling off numbers. 

You have to have a sense of who's in your audience. Sometimes after selling the first couple of lots, you just know you are going to have a good sale or you just know you are going to tank. You also need to know how to be persuasive without being overbearing or offensive. A good auctioneer can get a few more dollars out of someone by persuading them and the person winds up happy that they did in fact get the item. 

Someone not so good might alienate that person because they felt the auctioneer was pressuring them into doing something they didn't want to do. 

AHT: What has been your most memorable moment as an auctioneer?

JN: There have been a few but one I remember was while I was doing a hotel liquidation for a local auction house. We had finally gone outside to the courtyard to sell the patio furniture, which was the end of the merchandise or so I thought. After the patio furniture was sold I was informed that there was one more item. I looked all around and could not for the life of me figure out what was left to be sold. There was nothing else out there. 

That's when I found out that the last item was the actual gravel in the courtyard where we were standing. We proceeded to sell the gravel. That's when I truly realized that there is something out there for everyone - from rocks to antiques. 

AHT: You know what the next question is. What has been your worst moment as an auctioneer?

JN: Having a consignor jump up in the middle of an auction to claim that we were not getting enough money for her items. She actually stopped the auction. Of course she was escorted out of the building. I found out after that she was brand new to the business and had bought items from another auction, a higher-end auction, and had brought them to us with the intention of making money. Had she told me any of this when she consigned the merchandise to me I would have given her a quick lesson on what not to do. 

Turns out she overpaid for the items so there was no way she was going to make her money back let alone any profit. She also didn't consider that she had paid buyer's premium at the other auction and she was going to pay us a commission, which meant even less money. 

She returned the next day and I managed to calm her down and let her know that she was not allowed to disrupt an auction. I also told her that she needed to learn how auctions worked before she did anymore buying or selling. She did and now she is a pretty successful dealer. 

AHT: Do you take consignments at the network or do you own everything you auction?

JN: We do take a few consignments but we pretty much own everything else. We buy from different vendors all over the world.

AHT: Have you ever considered opening up your own auction house? If you want, this is where you could compliment me about how it's too difficult and too stressful to own your own house. 

JN: It has crossed my mind a few times and some people have asked me why I don't open my own. The main reason is the financial responsibilities. You had your own house, a really good house, for a number of years so you know just how difficult it can be. It takes a lot of time, money and effort. We have heard people in the business say they are going to open an auction but then nothing ever happens. They don't realize the commitments involved. Once they do, they don't talk about opening one anymore. 

You take a big chance opening your own house. It could be successful if you have the necessary resources and a good sense for business but at the same time it could end up being a bust. Anyone interested in doing something like that needs to have a lot of auction experience. It's not something you can go into with your eyes closed. The longer you are involved in the business before taking that big a step the better. People have to know you. It is difficult to build up an auction house if you're not known. 

AHT: If you had to pick one thing that you don't like about calling a sale, what would it be?

JN: It's difficult when no one in the audience wants to be the first bidder. An item might end up with a ton of bids and go for a lot of money but no one wants to be the first one to put up their hand. Something else, although it's never happened, is the fear that no one is going to show up at the auction. Nothing keeps a diehard auction customer away from an auction including a hurricane but it's still something I fear in the back of my mind. 

AHT: Who are more difficult to deal with, consignors or buyers?

JN: Consignors more than buyers. Buyers usually aren't too difficult to deal with, although there are exceptions. For the most part, buyers get their merchandise for much less than what it is worth and they know that. But a lot of consignors have an idea in their minds of what they think their items are worth even if the amounts are unrealistic. It doesn't help if an auction house gives out estimates that are at the high end of the value scale in order to get the consignment. I would never do that and I know you wouldn't do it either. You just end up with unhappy consignors.

AHT: No I didn't. I tried never to quote amounts because who really knows. If I did, I would always low-ball the values. I would rather have someone happy after the fact than disappointed. If an item did really well, the consignor would be ecstatic. If it went for less, then they didn't feel like they had been misled. 

JN: I agree. I did the same thing. Word of mouth in this business can make you or break you. So you need to be completely honest, even if it means losing the consignment. Referrals from previous clients are essential if you are to be successful. If you aren't up front with the customers, you won't make it. If you are not sincere, it might take awhile for it to catch up with you, but it will catch up with you.

AHT: What advice would you give someone who is thinking about becoming an auctioneer?

JN: I would advise that a person who wants to be an auctioneer go to the local auctions near where they live and see if they can work a few auctions, even if they have to do it for free. They have to be sure they are going to like it. I worked auctions part-time for a year before I decided that I was going to make it a career. For me, it was the right decision. 

AHT: Does this mean it is a tough business to break into?

JN: Somewhat. I don't think it is as tough as it used to be. The "old boy" network has kind of died off along with those who perpetuated it. Today anyone can go to auction school and if they work hard they have a good chance of finding their niche in the industry. Being an auctioneer isn't just about being a fast talker. A good personality, a good sense for business, a knowledge of what you are selling will all help. The only thing left that I haven't sold is a farm animal. It can be a little tough to break into the business but I believe that people can make their own success. 

AHT: Have you ever wanted to work for one of the cadillac houses, such as Christies or Sotheby's? 

JN: Yes, as a matter of fact.

AHT: I would never have expected that answer from you. I thought for sure that you would have answered no. 

JN: Surprise. It's always been a dream of mine. It isn't something I would want to do long term I don't think. I would more like it for the recognition of knowing that I'm good enough. Having either of those houses as a credential on my resume would be pretty nice. 

AHT: Well, I've tied up enough of your time. It was nice that I got to do this interview over a delicious steak dinner with a good friend. Thanks, John.

JN: You're very welcome. It was fun. I'll even pick up the tab.

AHT: Hopefully some of our readers will check you out on AAN. If they do, they are in for a great show.