Auction House Talk Interview….Furniture

Auction House Talk's very first interview is with none other than my husband, Richard Benedetto. He has volunteered to be a guinea pig for me and I'm very grateful. We have several other interviews already lined up with some very interesting people but I thought I would practice my Walter Cronkite skills at home before leaving the nest. We hope you will enjoy this part of the site. These interviews should provide some interesting insights as well as some practical and useful information on all different aspects of both the antiques business and the auction business. 

Retail Furniture Sales

Although not directly related to the antiques or auction businesses, pretty much everyone shops for furniture at one time or another. We do have a slight tie-in with auctions here but for the most part this interview is designed to assist you when looking for or purchasing new furniture at a retail furniture store.

The Interview

AHT: Thanks for agreeing to do this interview today.

RB: You're very welcome. "No interview, no dinner" was very persuasive so I'm happy to do it. 

AHT: How many years did you work in the furniture business?

RB: Just a little over 19 years.

AHT: Did you only work in retail sales?

RB: No. I spent two years managing a retail furniture store but prior to that I spent fourteen years as a manufacturer's rep on the road selling furniture. Following that I managed a furniture warehouse where we took in furniture and delivered the furniture that was purchased at our store. We also did refinishing. Finally, I spent about a year working for a big fabric wholesaler in New England selling fabric on the road to both reupholsters and businesses that made draperies and slipcovers. 

AHT: How does a retail furniture store get its product?

RB: There are two ways to get product. A manufacturer's rep visits 
a retail store and sells them the product from catalogs. The other is by having the store's buyer go to regional furniture shows. The buyer picks out the product he wants at a show and then he places orders for it.

AHT: Most people know that jewelry has a really high markup. Is the markup on furniture just as high? 

RB: Well I don't know too much about jewelry markups but, on average, you can expect a 300% markup at the most on furniture. A markup of 200% to 250% would be the most common. The factors that go into determining the markup at a retail furniture store is the actual cost of the furniture, the cost of the delivery charges from the factories and, should the store not have room for their surplus furniture on site, any warehousing costs they have to incur. 

This figure would then be doubled or tripled at the most and that is the price at which they are willing to sell their furniture. Maybe that sounds high but you have to understand that out of this selling price comes all the rest of the overhead which includes rent, insurance, utilities, commissions and other costs.

When a furniture store runs a 20% off sale, that is a legitimate discount but when you see sales that offer 70% or 75% off you should be leery of them. A store cannot sell their furniture for less than what they paid for it and still keep their doors open. If you are at one of these sales and are interested in a piece of furniture you have to carefully look at what you will be paying for it and assume that the store will still be making money. That means that you are probably buying a very inferior piece of furniture that originally had an exaggerated markup value.

Like I said, the rule of thumb is 200% to 250% for a markup. However, there can be exceptions to this and it usually depends on a store's local audience. If a store is located in a real "high-rent" district, chances are the prices will be higher there than they will be somewhere else for the same merchandise.

AHT: Many furniture stores sell accessories such as lamps, paintings, plants and other decorative items. Do the stores have the same markup on these items as they do the furniture?

RB: Sometimes these decorative items carry a higher markup because the store will probably own these items a lot longer than the furniture since it is the furniture itself that is the store's primary business. All the items you mentioned plus a few others such as carpets are placed to accessorize a room setting. Sometimes the store will package together the entire grouping to include the decorative items for those people who just can't do it themselves. It would include the accent items plus the sofa, loveseat, two chairs, two end tables and cocktail table. Some customers may purchase it this way because they may have no decorating experience themselves and are afraid that they cannot make the decisions necessary to create the same look. 

The problem with this is similar to going to a restaurant and, as it turns out, your eyes are bigger than your stomach. At the furniture store, you end up buying this entire package and find that after it's delivered your eyes were bigger than your room. Inside a store it is hard to get a sense of space since each of the room settings that are displayed have no walls. Having bought a package, you may find you have one or two pieces that just will not fit into the room. You then end up having to delegate them to other areas of your house. 

AHT: What is a loss leader?

RB: A loss leader is an item a furniture store is willing to sell at a loss in order to get you in the door. It could be a particular manufacturer, or a particular style or a particular fabric that is currently popular. For example, a sofa could be the loss leader. If they sell you the sofa they feel they will make up the loss on everything else you buy that day and, if you buy other items, there will be no further bargains for you. 

AHT: Can you just buy the loss leader item and wave goodbye?

RB: Absolutely.

AHT: Is it safe to assume that the more expensive a piece of furniture is the higher the quality?

RB: That would be the biggest mistake anyone could make. A furniture store could take a concrete bench and, if they put the right fabric on it and send in their best salesperson, you will be convinced that the bench is very comfortable. 

Here's an example: You go to one furniture store and see a particular style sofa in a particular fabric and the price is $1000. You go down the street and see the same style sofa in the exact same fabric and it is $500. You go to a third store and see the same style sofa with the exact same fabric and the sofa is $299. All three sofas are the same style and in the same fabric. You can't tell the difference between them unless you break them down and look at the frame, the foam and all of the other components. Never rely on price as an indicator of quality.

AHT: A lot of people believe that the heavier a piece of furniture is the better it is. Is that true?

RB: Not necessarily. The American furniture manufacturers have convinced people for years that heavier is always better. Well it isn't better if it is poorly made. Obviously the heavier denser woods may prove more durable over time but again a piece of furniture has to be well made before you start thinking of it as being "better." Quality is the missing factor in this equation. In my opinion, the higher the quality the better. However the people who believe you should buy furniture by the pound need to consider that chip core, which is compressed sawdust, is far more dense that solid wood and hence much heavier. This is a major exception to the buy it by the pound theory.

AHT: What are cased goods?

RB: Cased goods are bedroom sets, dining room sets, cabinets, bookcases and wall units. Living room sets are not considered cased goods. It is mainly larger pieces of furniture made of wood and are usually items in which you can store things.

AHT: If the sides of a drawer are stapled to the drawer front rather than being dovetailed does that automatically mean the piece is of low quality?

RB: I wouldn't say it was necessary low quality but it is lower quality than a dovetailed piece. Drawer fronts that are stapled have no strength and, at some point, you are going to pull that drawer apart. That will not happen with a drawer that is dovetailed.

AHT: Can you give us any tips as to what to watch out for when shopping for furniture?

RB: When are we having dinner?

AHT: Later. 

RB: As I just finished saying, on furniture with drawers, your want the drawers dovetailed. This is very important to the durability of the piece. When it comes to upholstered furniture watch for sloppy upholstering. If the upholstery on a piece of furniture has a pattern, that pattern should all match up when pieces of that fabric are joined together. For example, if there is a seam running down the center of a flower then the two sides of the flower should match up perfectly. If they do not, this is a sign of sloppy upholstering. 

When it comes to sofas that have slab backs, which means there are no back cushions, there used to always be a seam running down the center of the fabric. Now fabric manufacturers have the ability to have fabric roll off the loom widthwise instead of lengthwise. This means that on a 100-yard roll of fabric they can get a 100-yard match without doing any cutting. This is called railroading. There is no longer a need for a seam on a slab back sofa. The same applies to a bench seat which is a seat with no cushions.

If the padding on upholstered chair arms or sofa arms seems skimpy then this is a sign of lower quality. You want arms that have thick padding which means the manufacturer didn't cut any corners when making the piece. A better quality piece will have decent foam rubber wrapped in polydacron which gives a feathery feel somewhat like down. This same material in seats and cushions goes a long way to improving comfort or what some people in the business refer to as "the ride." 

Look for what are called the law labels. These are legally required labels on all new items describing the fabric and filling of all mattresses and upholsterd furniture as regulated by the United States. It is against the law for them to be removed by anyone other than the consumer.

Some people think that a "denim deck" on a sofa is a sign of lower quality. This means that when you remove the cushions from the seat of a sofa, the material that covers the top of the under seat is just plain material and does not match the fabric on the rest of the sofa. If the material on the top of the under seat matches the rest of the sofa it is called "self decking." It is not true that a denim deck denotes poorer quality. Some very expensive sofas and chairs that are of excellent quality have a denim deck.

If you are looking for quality then you want to stay away from screw on legs on any piece of furniture. The legs should always be an integral part of the frame. If the legs of a sofa or table screw on, don't let a salesperson tell you that you are looking at real quality.

Exercise some caution when it comes to a mattress sale. If the sale offers big discounts on new mattresses because of scuff marks or other minor problems, there is a chance that the mattresses are not technically new. A lot of them could be mattresses that have been returned because the customers were not happy with them once they took delivery. The scuff marks and "other minor problems" are all things that happen to mattresses while being transported. Also, under no circumstances should you take delivery of a mattress that is not wrapped in plastic. 

No matter how good a deal seems to be, do not be pressured into buying before you are ready and don't make the decision based on price alone. You are going to own whatever you buy for a long time so make sure it is something you can live with comfortably.

Take a tape measure with you when you go to a furniture store. If you are looking for specific items and know where you are going to place them then measure those spaces before you go shopping. Be sure to consider the placement of windows, doors and closets.

Before you finalize a furniture sale you should know what kind of warranty you are going to get and exactly what that warranty will cover. Find out what the furniture store's policy is if your furniture arrives damaged and find out how much the delivery charges will be.

I would also suggest that you do a little research before spending a lot of money at a furniture store. When you know you are going to a particular store, go online first and check out the available information on that store. Just key in the name of the store and see what comes up. You may only get back that store's Website, which is a good thing. However you could get back a list of different sites that have complaints against that store. You will then be able to read those complaints and evaluate whether or not you still want to shop there.

One final thing. There are furniture stores that have been in business for many years and they are probably not going anywhere. However, there are others that don't last long and the chances of that happening are much greater in the present economy. Be careful using layaway as a payment option. Depending on how much you buy, you could be talking about a sizable amount of money as just the down payment. Exercise caution. You don't want to lose that money. 

AHT: Are all furniture salespeople paid on commission?

RB: No. There are three different options but not all furniture stores offer all three options. It depends on the policy of the particular store. The first option is straight commission. Salespeople who are very experienced self-starters with a lot of self-confidence usually want straight commission. They can talk a mile a minute and they know that they can close the majority of sales. The salespeople who are paid on straight commission make the most money of anyone. 

The second option is salary plus commission. Salespeople who are not quite as self-confident would rather get less commission and have that extra cushion where they know they are taking home a certain amount of money every week. This turns out to be a good choice when they're having a bad week. 

The third option is straight salary. Salespeople on straight salary don't make anywhere near what salespeople on straight commission make. However they may not be in a position where they can take the chance that they will make enough money every week to cover their obligations. 

AHT: When a customer walks into a furniture store, can any salesperson wait on them?

RB: No. The salespeople work on what's called an "up" system. The salespeople go in order taking one turn at a time. If you walk into the store, the next salesperson who is "up" is your salesperson. It is his job to go all around the store with you helping you whenever he can and answering any questions you might have. If you tie him up and three other salespeople get three more "ups" and each sells $8000 worth of furniture then that's just the luck of the draw. You are still his "up" until you leave the store. 

There is however one exception to this system. If a customer comes into the store and asks for a specific salesperson by name because that salesperson waited on them before then that salesperson is allowed to break ranks and wait on that customer. 

AHT: If someone buys a piece of furniture and then they find flaws in the wood should they send it back?

RB: It depends on the definition of "flaw". If there is a man made gouge or a serious scratch on the piece, then by all means send it back. However, if the "flaw" is one that was made by Mother Nature as the tree was growing, such as a pit like indentation in the wood, then the answer would be no. People who buy real wood have to understand that it was at one time a living thing and is therefore not perfect. Not to be sarcastic but if someone is looking for absolutely perfect they need to buy plastic. You will never find perfection when dealing with real wood.

AHT: What are the names of some of the high-end furniture manufacturers?

RB: Well, there are quite a few of them. The ones that come to mind are Henredon, Baker, Kittinger, Karges, American Drew and Bernhardt. There are of course many others. If you look online under high-end furniture manufacturers you will get back quite a list but be careful. Some of the praise could be coming directly from the manufacturers themselves rather than independent sites doing a fair evaluation of quality. 

AHT: What about decent furniture at a decent price?

RB: Drexel, Heritage, Bassett, Pennsylvania House and Kincaid. 

AHT: How important is fabric to a piece of furniture?

RB: Fabric is more important than style. You could have the most expensive sofa in a spectacular style but if you have it covered in a really unattractive fabric - strike that. Let's be honest, if you have it covered in a really ugly fabric you might as well have that concrete bench I mentioned earlier. From a visual standpoint, a beautiful fabric makes for a beautiful looking piece of furniture regardless of the price. Also, there are some people who like to redecorate frequently so for them quality may not be as important as the look.

AHT: When it comes to durability, what fabrics should people stay away from?

RB: If there are children involved and they are going to be allowed access to the room where the furniture is then you need to stay away from cotton prints. There are some beautiful cotton prints with smashing colors out there because cotton accepts dye so well. However children can ruin a cotton print in a matter of weeks. Also, if you are looking for durability, stay away from the velvet family. 

The strongest fabric is herculon but it is no longer as popular today as it was a number of years ago. Leather and vinyl are very durable and easily cleaned but they are also easily punctured. Microfibre, which is a suede-like material, is also pretty durable and can be cleaned. Tightly woven fabrics with a pattern are more desirable than printed fabrics. Finally, wool and wool blends hold up well and can be spot cleaned. 

AHT: Is it worth the cost to have your new furniture protected with Scotch Guard?

RB: In my opinion, no. Most fabrics have already been treated before they leave the mill. It is redundant to have that process repeated. This is a way for the furniture store to make additional money.

AHT: You're hungry aren't you?

RB: Yes.

AHT: Depending on the amount of abuse someone's furniture is going to take, do some woods hold up better than others?

RB: Most solid woods are durable by definition. The important factor here is more the price. If there are children in the house and the furniture is going to get a lot of use then something like pine would be a good choice. Once the children are older this furniture could be replaced with more expensive woods such as cherry, mahogany, oak or rosewood. As long as the furniture is well made, these woods will serve you well and long. 

AHT: Is it true that there is furniture that looks like wood with a wood grain top but in reality it is actually not wood at all?

RB: Sure. It's called an engraved finish. For example, a manufacturer can take a round piece of chip core (compressed sawdust) and coat it with a white substance that seals the chip core and acts like a film negative. They then put the chip core top into a machine that will superimpose a picture of wood onto it. They can apply different pictures; some of them very elaborate such as diamond matched veneers. 

Should you have such a piece of furniture you must be very careful of whatever you put on top of it such as nail polish remover. Should it spill, it will leave a big white spot. The picture of the wood will have been totally erased. You also don't want to spill nail polish remover on real wood either but at least if you do you can have the top refinished. The purpose of the engraved finish is to be able to offer some furniture pieces at an inexpensive price.

AHT: There is a lot of reproduction furniture coming into the United States from overseas, such as Indonesia. Is there anything that people should watch out for when it comes to these imports?

RB: Yes, there is. This reproduction furniture, which includes lots of large cased pieces, is very nice to look at. It has many positive things going for it. It is made of solid wood, it is hand carved, the styles and shapes are very attractive and some of it is quite elaborate and ornate. However when the trees are cut down in places like Indonesia the manufacturers do not allow the wood to dry out before they turn it into furniture. 

The wood in this area of the world is grown under exceptionally humid conditions. Once they make a piece of furniture from wood that is full of humidity, they ship it to the United States. That piece of furniture ends up in maybe Michigan or Maine. Now that piece is going to have to sit in a house through the winter with the heat on. Heat is dry and removes humidity from not only the air but your furniture as well. After a period of time, that piece of wood is going to dry out and, when it does, it is probably going to crack. 

If the owner of this piece of furniture is lucky, it will be a small crack but the chances are just as great that it could be a huge split across the center of what might be a king size headboard. If you own such a headboard and hear a large cracking noise in the middle of the night, you don't need to put the light on in order to find out what happened. Reproduction furniture from overseas is like the proverbial rose. It is beautiful but it's got a thorn. Hard woods in the United States are kiln dried. They have already gone through the drying process so you are much less likely to have this kind of problem with American made furniture.

AHT: When someone buys a piece of furniture from an antique mall, there is usually a negotiation process as to the final price and this negotiation is both acceptable and expected. Can someone try to negotiate pricing at a retail furniture store?

RB: Yes, you can try and sometimes you will be successful but more often than not you won't be. You have a better chance of doing this at a retail furniture store that is independently owned. You may succeed in negotiating with a store that is part of a chain but that might depend on how bad business has been lately. There are some stores that are considered designer stores or high-end stores that will probably not be receptive to negotiation. If they are in the mood to negotiate their prices, they run a sale and tag the appropriate items. That's as close to negotiating as you are going to get. The only way you can know for sure is if you ask. 

AHT: Some people do not buy furniture from an auction because the furniture is technically "used." However there are some auction houses that sell surplus furniture that is brand new. Is it worth buying this furniture at auction at a lower price if it means giving up having a warranty?

RB: I think it is. Say that there is a living room set that is selling at a furniture store for $2000. Perhaps the store re-orders 10 additional sets from the manufacturer but when the furniture shows up it has the wrong fabric on all 10 sets. This proves to be the manufacturer's error so the store refuses to take delivery. The manufacturer was wholesaling these sets to the store for $1000 each. Now they have 10 sets that they can't use. 

The manufacturer will probably either consign them to an auction house or sell them to an auction house for their cost which is probably around $350 per set. It is possible that someone can pick up one of these sets for $500 to $700. That's a minimum saving of $1300. In my opinion, no warranty is worth that kind of money. You could pay to fix any problem you might have with the set and still be ahead of the game. New furniture at auction is usually a great opportunity for retail buyers. I don't understand why more people don't take advantage of it. 

AHT: That's it for now. We may delve into this subject matter further down the road. 

RB: Great! Is it time for dinner now?

AHT: Yes.

RB: What are we having?

AHT: You're taking me out.